Are we spending too much on our Classics?

[Joloke]

Following on from the comment on another thread i have to ask are we paying to much for certain jobs on our classics?

Our last classic was a Rover Mini Automatic which all told cost us around a whopping £6k in the end and we ended up selling it for just £2.5k

£2k of that was for a second rate paint job and welding

So in the end we just cut our losses

Anyway valuable lessons learnt but it has got me asking the question do we pay too much for certain work on our beloved cars?

There was a time when the classic car scene was all about doing everything you possibly could yourself and restoring original useable bits as much as possible

Whereas now i feel that useable/serviceable items are often dropped in favour of shiny new remanufactured and sometimes inferior parts

Welders now charge so much you think they were Einstein and sprayers charge as if they were Micheal Angelo

There will always be things we cannot do ourselves,the AP auto Transmission on our Mini destroyed itself and a great Gearbox guy remachined gears from scratch and rebuilt and modified the transmission better than new and trailered it back to me as it was out of MOT that guy was a diamond!!

but i will always know we were ripped off for the paint and welding

So i ask can we learn how to weld ourselves and weld using cheaper gear and keep costs to a minimum?

Also whats wrong with using a cheap earlex or appolo spray station loaded with coach enamel (Much cheaper than Celly,2pack,or that daft water paint)?

You could spray a car for £150 using Coach Enamel and that includes buying the Spray Station thats 90% cheaper than most Bodyshops charge just to spray something the size of a Mini or Fiat 500

In this day and age with such a flakey Economy i think there are cheaper ways we can rebuild our classics,lets face it keeping them on the road is far more important than having a state of the art sprayer or welder doing work you could do yourself at a fraction of the cost

Your Thoughts?

Jodie

[rld14]

Jodie,

I think that you have to look at a few factors if you're having a classic restored. OK, right now I have 2 classics that need attention.

1) 1960 Vauxhall PA Velox. This WAS a nice, restored car that was stolen and just recovered. Anyhow, it's going to need probably $4,000-5,000 in bodywork and $2,000+ in Mechanical work. When I am done, what's it going to be worth, $7,000?

2) 1962 Vauxhall PA Velox. This is a real mess, I bought it on eBay nearly 8 years ago for $350 and had it hauled down to New Jersey from Ottawa, Ontario (500 miles I think). It's rusty, full of filler (dent repair...) and the engine is in pieces. The plan for this car is to throw in a 3.3 with a twin weber carb setup, and make it a stock appearing quasi-hotrod. I figure I'll have $5,000 in mechanics, $5,000 in bodywork, a couple grand in interior and electrics, maybe another $2,000 in chromework if not more depending on what a bonnet trim piece costs me if I can even find one. Plus the plan is to make this one the regular driver, so another $1,000-1,500 to fit air conditioning, another $500 to fit Satellite radio and some hidden speakers, etc, When I am done with it, I MIGHT have an $8,000 car.

Neither car will be worth the repair costs.

But here's how I look at it... LHD PAs are extremely rare and there's no question as to whether or not the 60 will be saved, it's my baby, and the 62 absolutely will be saved because it quite simply cannot be left to die IMO.

Will I be "buried" financially? Well, yes. Will either car likely be for sale? No, probably not. And once the dust settles, 2 or so years from now I will own 2 very nice LHD PAs in really nice condition and that's exactly what I want. Also, no amount of money will let me just run out and buy a nice PA like I can do with a Mustang or a Chevelle.

But what's the sport in that? Anyone can have a Mustang, or a Chevelle, or a Camaro, etc... driving a PA? THAT'S a Challenge!

[CompoSimmonite]

One thing to remember is all cars need maintenance so if you spend £***** on brakes, tyres, steering, servicing etc then you cann't expect their costs to massively increase the car value.
That is why buying a heap and restoring is never going to be cost effective as the end result will virtually always cost far more than the value if sold.
We do it as a hobby and passion for the cars - not for the financial growth.
Another way of looking at is it how many people do you know spend £50+ on a "good night out" ? That is their choice on how to get enjoyment whereas I prefer to spend £50 on my hobby. We've both spent £50 but I know where I my money goes and it's not down the drain

Paul H

[TriumphDriver]

In a word: YES. But to rephrase the question: do we HAVE to spend so much on our classics? No.
I've been given cars for free. They may have been tatty but would have passed MOT with minimal refurbishment. Cheap Insurance, free tax and minimal running costs would have seen a cheap motor on the road.
In many cases owners throw money at shiny bits without really needing them - myself included - so bling can be a major expense whereas a wirebrush and a tin of paint can freshen many parts. If we get into the habit of refurbishment rather than replacement it can be a major saving.
I can compare two cars I'm currently restoring. One doesn't belong to me - the owner 'bought' it off me years ago (it cost me £230 to buy) and the agreement was that I would finish it once he had the major work completed. He got the body fully restored and a professional respray, the engine and gearbox rebuilt, seats recovered, bought a new dash and hood, and assorted shiny bits. I repainted and refurbished the suspension, brakes and electrics and sourced many small parts that were missing before rebuilding the entire car.
My own car is an almost identical model. I rubbed down the body, replaced a couple of panels (brother-in-law is a welder by trade), got it resprayed by the same bodyshop. For nothing - they were doing his in the same colour anyway and I did all the prep work plus a few jobs for them on other classics - brake pipes and refurbishment etc. Engine and gearbox were good so got a repaint and at my current mileage will go for another ten years. Wiring loom was retaped, seats cleaned up, good second hand dashboard and although I had to buy a new hood it was the only big expense. I sandblasted wheels for a local tyre shop and got four free Bridgestone tyres. Both cars are progressing well, both are looking well, but mine is a third of the price that it cost the other. I bought many of my parts second-hand at shows and autojumbles and saved a fortune.
So: yes, we can spend too much on our classics - but do we need to?

[tractorman]

As Paul H says, we could spend out £50 on drink, go to football matches etc, but many of us prefer to spend it on our vehicles.

My £300 Ferguson tractor has cost me about £3000 to restore. I've just sent in an advert to a tractor mag to sell it - for £2,500 ono and probably won't get an offer over £2000 (I won't say how much I'll accept!). However, look at another way - I've owned it for 11 years and used it for various jobs. As a hobby £1000 or so over 11 years is pretty cheap! Just don't count the £5000 or so I've spent repairing (not buying) my other two tractors!

However, I'm luckier than OP: I could gas weld, spray paint (badly at first but improving all the time), have a good set of tools and reasonable ability to use them and, more importantly, have friends who could find parts cheaply. I'm slowly improving my MIG welding (a decent welder helps) and am about to make my own sandblast cabinet (a friend has given me a load of boiler panels to make it with). So I have improved my skills and been able to use them in my work (when I was working as a school Technology Technician).

What annoys me with the tractor fraternity is that some of them are going the way of the "posh car" people - using 2Pak paint, getting full blown restorations to better than factory finish and, in one case, buying a tractor and parking it up for twenty years (I'm so glad it didn't get a first in its first show!).

All of my tractors can do a day's work - and are expected to do so if required (true practical classics!). The Fergy has limitations (like the front end coming off the ground if there's a lot in the trailer), so I will let someone else enjoy it! When I'm at shows, I often see the more interesting cars in the car park; eg the fastback Rapier I saw there wasn't "show condition", but had an enthusiastic owner who knew all about the car and used it every day, was far more interesting than the Mk1 Cortina which had several rosettes on the back seat and was shiny metal inside the exhaust!

Perhaps the main reason OP's Mini lost/cost money was that they only had it for a couple of years. If you had a new German Mini, you'd have lost a lot more in that time - and leanrt a lot less!

[mr rusty]

It doesn't cost me much because I do everything myself, and have done ever since I was a little'un with my first bicycle...the only thing I pay for is tyre changing and the occasional bit of engine machining. Everything else, welding, painting, fabricating, stripping, rebuilding, etc, etc, is done by me, and I'm cheap, it only costs me my time. And that applies to household repairs too

I dread to think what it would cost to pay someone else to do it all. I shudder when I hear what friends and relatives pay just to get basic servicing and repairs done.

My main expenditure is tools and equipment, but even then you only buy the stuff once, and once you've done the first job with it it's free from then on and saving you money rather than costing you money.Even basic stuff like wheel alignment is probably £30 a go now, very few tyre bay monkeys seem to be able to get it right or even understand the basic principles of getting it right so the trakrite i bought years and years ago has paid for itself over and over again.

Obviously I enjoy doing it - to me it's more fun doing the work than having a finished product which doesn't require any further attention, other people may think differently and prefer the cheque book approach. Not everyone likes getting their hands dirty and it's not essential to know how your car works, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not my way.

[Luxobarge]

^^^WHS^^^

My story is almost exactlythe same as Mr Rusty's.

Example - I've been doing house repairs & restoration (15th century Hall House) for the past year, almost all of it myself. We've spent about £20k,, if I'd paid someone to do it we'd already have got through £70-80k, and it's nowhere near finished...

Same story with cars - there are very few cars where you could turn a profit by a professional restoration, even a DIY one is very difficult, my Midget owes me about £9.5k, even doing all the work myself, and it's worth maybe £4.5k tops. Do I care? No!!

[rich.]

i restored several cars & lost money every time, i could have spent the money in the pub & had nothing at the end of it apart from embarrasing flashbacks and an awful hangover....id rather restore a car

[suffolkpete]

Let's face it, running a car is an expensive business whatever you do. You can buy a new car, watch the value dwindle to nothing in a few years or restore a classic and still have something that's worth a bit of money at the end of it, even if it's a lot less than you've spent. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[SEE YA]

Its not about the money, its about EVERY MILE IS SMILE factor

Well it is for me anyway .