Irresponsible Classic Car Mags

[TriumphDriver]

Got slightly irate this morning over a coffee and the latest Classics Monthly mag. The cover features three "thrifty fifties" cars which apparrently "blend charm and economy" - a good point in these days of high fuel prices.
SO WHAT"S THE FIRST THING THEY SAY ON THE OPENING PAGE?
Standard 10 - upgrade to larger Triumph engine
Ford Prefect: Fit Kent Crossflow engine
Austin A35: fit 1275cc Midget engine.
WHAT FOR?? (You can tell I'm cross!)
They're advocating ruining the originality of three perfectly good cars for what? Then of course we require brake upgrades to cope with the extra power... what rubbish they fill the heads of young enthusiasts with these days in the name of speed. It's totally pointless illustrating the simplicity charm and economy of small 50s cars then immediately putting this down and recommending fitting bigger engines for, it appears, no real reason.
I thought Classic car mags were here to preserve cars, and to leave the botching and modifying to hot rod mags or Max Power mags?

[Martin Evans]

I don’t think fitting a 1275 into an A35 or fitting a larger Triumph SC engine into a Standard 10 would exactly be a “Max Power” move (Maybe fitting a hot 1600 Crossflow into a Prefect might be going that way). Provided it’s done properly, I don’t see it as a problem.

It really depends on what you want from the vehicle. I wouldn’t really want a Morris Minor without front disc brakes unless it was a car to be entered in concours events. On the other hand, my 1275cc, 5 speed, disc braked, Quaife diffed Morris Traveller is a much more useful vehicle than a Series 2 Traveller, with its 803cc 30 bhp A Series.

These days you have to be careful with engine swaps, as you can end up on a Q plate. I wouldn’t fit a K Series into my Traveller for this reason (Plus I like the simplicity of the OHV engine).

My MG Midget 1500 has a Spitfire overdrive gearbox and that has improved the car no end, whilst the V8 has a Rover SD1 gearbox, as the standard MGC derived gearbox was known to be weak. Although the cars are not strictly concours, due to being non original, they are nevertheless in first rate order and in terms of specification, are better than concours. For example, the standard MGB seats, from the mid 1970s, were pretty poor and the covering was prone to stretch and crease. When Suffolk and Turley had recovered them, they were better than new.

[rld14]

First,

If we're talking about bolt-on modifications that won't cause permanent alterations to the car, then what's wrong with it? You can always get the spanners out and change it back.

And as far as more power and better brakes, I agree with them. A35s and Standard 10s are wonderful little classics, and they're so darn slow by today's standards that they are basically dangerous to drive in modern traffic. When I lived in Florida I briefly owned an F-Type Victor, it looked great next to my PA and it was a very nice car.

I also took my life in my hands every time I tried to drive it. As a daily driver it would have been impossible and deadly. YOU try merging into traffic with a car that takes 30+ seconds to hit 60. And you can coax a Victor to 60 in 30 seconds if you have the poor thing flat out, and that's no way to treat the car every time you drive it. Driving a Victor like a normal person was impossible in Florida traffic, that's why I sold it. At least the PA could cruise at 65-70 and with a 0-60 time in the 15-16 second range it was able to keep up with traffic, but I still had to be a little harder on her than I would have liked.

[mr rusty]

It's the old story, where do you stop, when do you remove all the soul from a car?

These mods are at least pretty much period, the sort of thing that would have been done when the cars were still fairly current, in the case of the A35 it's at least a like for like swap with a later version of the same engine.

I'm not a fan of the megajolt/squirt school of modding, I would always say if you want a nice and efficient modern car then buy one in the first place- there's plenty of them out there with Hyundai and Honda badges on with all the work and fuel mapping already done and the disc brakes in place. Having said that, if folks want to do this to their old cars then fair enough, it's their car to do with as they like, it's just not something that interests me. Hot-rodding is a different thing entirely, something I like to see just because it is so extreme, but as for making old cars drive like modern ones, I really can't see the point.

I like old cars because they are old and have old things, such as dynamos and control boxes, unservo'd brakes, carburrettors, overdrive, things that don't exist now. When I flip the front of the Vitesse open it looks like something from another age with bits kids don't understand, even the screen washer is a novelty to people only used to modern cars........it's a hand pump, it would be so much more efficient if I simply swapped it for an electric one but a little bit of the cars soul would go.

And finally would anyone take a Model T and stuff a kent and a type 9 in? I would hope not!!!!! It would keep up with the traffic on the motorway but that's not really the point of having a car like that is it?

[TriumphDriver]

My point is that they're NOT helping current owners of these cars use them every day - they're advocating new owners buying cars with "charm and economy" and then make them into something they're not. If you want a classic for everyday or motorway use, buy an appropriate car. Don't rip the originality out of a car trying to make it do something it was never designed to.
I've driven a drum-braked 948 Herald around the M25 and the entire length of Britain with no problems. If you think these cars are deadly, then DON'T buy them in the first place. The article wasn't advocating the preservation of the cars, but the adaptation into a more modern vehicle that just sits at odds with the design and the era they invoke.
I'm not talking concours, I'm talking of the originality, the nostalgia, the simple old engineering that attracted me to the cars in the first place. Once it was an oddity, now replacement-engined classics are everywhere and if even the Classic magazines are promoting them then we're losing something at the core of our hobby.

[Minxy]

I agree with you TriumphDriver in my opinion old cars should be left as they were/are......but in defence of the article I think what they are getting at is if those particular cars are to be used on a daily basis on modern roads then in standard ‘trim’ they may not keep pace. As it happens my Minx is of course a fifties car and I recon I would struggle to drive it on a daily basis – it would become too arduous. But as has been said time before if you have paid for the car its yours to do what you want whether we agree or not. Also as said above in the most part those alterations are reversible, rather that than chopped about to slot in V8’s etc.

[Seth]

I put a more modern engine in my wifes car so that she could continue to use it regularly without me getting fed up with replacing old engines quite so frequently. It is possible to do this stuff without ruining the look and feel of an old car too. I'm a bit of a stickler for trying to keep things apparently period.



People may like the particular look, style, size, interior of a certain car (A35 perhaps) but are not happy driving it with semi mechanical brakes at a speed that puts it playing with the lorries in the slow lane. Bolting in some other BMC parts that are 40 years old rather than 50 years old will not change its period character and might mean it gets out and about, used as it was intended, more frequently. You cannot really make an old car drive like a newer one without some massive alterations.

[bnicho]

I think upgrades depend on the car.

If it's a tidy original low-mileage example and it was mine, then it would remain original. I would feel it was sacrelidge to modify a 10,000 mile A35 for example.

If it's like most classics (eg: Seth's Triumph) and it's lost it's original engine long ago, then I have no problem with upgrades. If they mean the car is used more than it otherwise would be, then that's an added bonus.

Taking some examples from my own fleet:

- My Beetle has it's original engine and has no issues keeping up with daily use, so I'd like to keep it as original as possible.

- My Moke lost it's original engine (and just about everything else) long before I bought it, so I modify it as I see fit. It's still recognisably a Moke though.

- My Corona has had a period upgrade to a more powerful engine originally offered for that car when new.

- The Mini Traveller will be fitted with a 1275 engine, Cooper S disk brakes, Cooper S wheels, modern seat-belts and probably under-dash air conditioning. The original engine (which is seized anyway) will be stored in case I ever want to rebuild it and refit it. The upgrades will largely maintain the original look of the car but allow me to use it more than would be the case with an 850 and drums.

[rld14]

I'm looking at the big picture, like I said, if bolt-on mods means that the appeal of these cars is wider, that means an expansion of the hobby and more cars survive and are cared for, that's a good thing. I am not a huge fan of throwing modern drivetrains in classics, but to each their own.

I have seen posts online where some gorgeous low-mile "survivors" have been heavily modified, this is a crime IMO.

Now, take my 2 PAs... First one is a 60 Velox, with the original motor that runs beautifully, this is, of course, staying stock. Second one is a 62 project car with a destroyed engine that's been in pieces for about, oh, 30 years. It's getting a later 3.3 out of a PC (Once I find one and ship it over the sea) and what the heck, a Weber DCOE carb and I'll swap the diff for a Ventora one. It'll be all Vauxhall, and all old Vauxhall (No I am NOT going to stick a red top in it!) but the car will be rather quick. I'm also going to convert it to disc brakes, as were optional when it was new. I do plan on driving it regularly.

[mr rusty]

PC went through a stage of this a couple of years ago, when they ran a front cover feature on a 'Mk 1 Escort Mexico', which turned out to be an Escort shell with a zetec engine and something else transmission and suspenion as well....not much Mexico in there at all really! An original unmolested Mexico would have been interesting, and to be honest this modded one was too, but for other reasons and it was a pointless article for a classic car mag to run.