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Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keepers
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:14 am
by Willy Eckerslyke
This is one petition that I reall agree with:
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... tions/6342
At present the British Parking Association is lobbying hard to make vehicle keepers liable for parking penalties. They are responsible for the very vague Part 3 Chapter 2 Clause 56 in the Protection of Freedoms Bill entitled "Recovery of Unpaid Parking Charges". The clause reads "Schedule 4 (which makes provision for the recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper of a vehicle in cases where it is not known who was driving the vehicle when the charges were incurred) has effect." British law provides the protection of innocence until proven guilty (paraphrasing the Magna Carta). Even the EU enshrines this in the The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights. Clause 56 seeks to apply criminal powers to a civil matter. Clause 56 will make the keeper guilty UNLESS they can prove their innocence and MUST be removed from the bill before parliament.
Closing date is on the 12th, Nov, so there's no time to lose.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:55 pm
by suffolkpete
With only about 7000 signatures, I don't hold out much hope of this petition ever getting anywhere. I disagree most strongly with the whole idea of the DVLA giving out details to scumbag parking control companies at all. Having said that, these private parking companies are only on dodgy legal grounds anyway and rely on intimidation and harrassment to get their money. I don't believe that there is any instance of these companies ever taking a case to court and winning. Best thing to do if you get a notice from them is to ignore it.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:33 pm
by Maaarrghk
With respect Pete, if we all hold that attitude then the petition will stay at around 7000 (now 7001). And so will many others.
If you don't support it then fair enough, but if you do, it only takes a minute of your time - that's probably less time than you might spend "moaning about it down the pub" if it does become law.
Similar arrangements already exist for speed camera fines, so it is something that needs to be taken seriously. You state that these companies are already on dodgy legal ground. Why stand back to let them try and get some credibility for what they do?
I have no wish to cause you offence Pete, so please don't take this the wrong way - after all, I'd really like you to sign this petition.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:04 pm
by Willy Eckerslyke
Pete didn't actually say that he hadn't signed it, so don't be too harsh.
It's true that it'll need a miracle to get through, but we can but try.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:10 pm
by suffolkpete
Maaarrghk wrote:Similar arrangements already exist for speed camera fines
That's not really the same thing, speeding is a criminal offence, overstaying parking is not, so it is not a precedent
I have no wish to cause you offence Pete, so please don't take this the wrong way - after all, I'd really like you to sign this petition.
None taken, and I did sign the petition, my point was that we should really be attacking the DVLA and its abuse of personal data.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:10 pm
by vintagemotor
Signed
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:30 pm
by rich.
signed..
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:12 pm
by Maaarrghk
Thanks for both signing and not taking offence Pete.
Sorry to go off topic, but is breaking the speed limit actually a criminal offence?
I always thought it was a civil offence as I don't think that points for a speeding offence count as "having a criminal record".
I've struggled for some time to get a definitive answer on this, but note that most who refer to it as a "criminal" offence seem to be those pushing a "more cameras", "greater punishments" or "lower limits" type of agenda.
I have had a clean license since 1989, but would not even consider putting down 3 points for breaking a speed limit if I had them and was asked whether or not I have a criminal record.
Maybe I should pop over to Safespeed with this one.........
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:01 am
by suffolkpete
Maaarrghk wrote:Sorry to go off topic, but is breaking the speed limit actually a criminal offence?
I always thought it was a civil offence as I don't think that points for a speeding offence count as "having a criminal record".
Yes it is a criminal offence and you can be prosecuted for it. If you are offered a fixed penalty, then the authorities are saying "This is only a minor infringement, so we are using our discretion to offer you this as an alternative to prosecution" but they don't have to and will always prosecute if, for example, you are caught exceeding 100mph, but the fixed penalty counts as a conviction. Most people take a relaxed view of speeding convictions and don't count them, or half the adult population would be caught. I've just completed an insurance proposal for my house and it included the question "Have you within the last five years received any criminal conviction, excluding speeding?", but had they not excluded it, I would have felt obliged to mention any points I had (I don't have any) or I could be in trouble if I made a claim.
Re: Petition (Clause 56) Do NOT make registered vehicle keep
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:04 pm
by Dave3066
Maaarrghk wrote: is breaking the speed limit actually a criminal offence?
Speed limits are set out in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which is statute law ( ie determined by an Act of Parliament) so any infringement is criminal.
suffolkpete wrote:we should really be attacking the DVLA and its abuse of personal data.
Absolutely, is that the next petition then?
suffolkpete wrote:private parking companies are only on dodgy legal grounds anyway
Ignore them and they'll go away eventually. No-one has ever been taken to court over private parking charges, despite the numerous letters threatening court action.
Dave